Since you use the word allopathic medicine I assume you are into naturopathics. You are claiming Naturopathy is superior to conventional medicine. That was clear. Every treatment has as potential side effect death so that is a non sequitur Potential vs. proven to actually induce either by checking it against a placebo or by observation in clinical settings, thats a world of difference. assumption you construct your further argument or more a deflection of Quite embarrassing. It is mandatory to procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website. Naturopathic Diaries houses a collection of stories by patients, naturopaths, and medical providers. Jul 29 - We have found a legal way to re-start all our wellness therapies! Dude are serious? I care a rats fart of what you think. My claim was and has been that the above article by Britt lacks any data for her claim that naturopathic licensing has caused thousands of patients to be exposed to dangerous, expensive, and illegitimate therapies. Quote: The total number is still n=87. large parts of naturopathic therapies have been shown not to work. so have large parts of allopathic therapies. No, thats you. regarding the It can be injected directly into a joint, muscle or tendon, or be infused into the blood through intravenous injection. Yep, another great display how to make the most nonsensical grouping in a study look relevant. assumed that only the CAM arm was the study) this is a So I need to provide evidence, but all you say is self-evident and doesnt need proof hahahahaaaa! This treatment is appropriate for both chronic and acute pain. Ok Pola Dont you get that ?. Nope, you again. Let me explain something to you. BTW, re n<30: in this trial one needs roughly around 20 (even less) patients per group to reach a power of 0.8. with this effect size. Which I have no problem in accepting . Just by repeating the poor data of this chart review you do not make it look any more relevant. It was 522 women with breast cancer. Sometimes, that darn old orgo comes in handy. Maybe according to wikipedia, but wikipedia certainly is not an expert on alternative medical treatments. This non-understanding goes that deep that we had to point out *three times* how big the study really is. It has been pointed out to you *repeatedly* that this is a preliminary study aimimg at assessing the risk of chosing CAM treatment in general over state of the art treatment. you explicitely deny the true size of the study, plus you could NOT understand the design of the study because you could NOT find the total study size. The discussion is closed. I accept your defeat. Here we go: There are n=87 participants but they have different stages of cancer, I, II, III. Ozone therapy has been used in a variety of ways for over 100 years, from an anti-fungal to healing agent. Washington State LegislationWAC 246-836-210, Naturopaths are not allowed to administer ozone or any other gas. How do you ethically justify applying treatments Ozone: A versatile Agent An Overview Because I know that MDs take orgo. For the state-of-the art treatment patients where matched and randomly assigned at a matching ratio of 1:5, i.e. Dr. Khan has received ozone therapy training under Dr. Robins, but does not use direct intravenous ozone injection due to some risks of this therapy, which can be avoided by using other ozone administration methods. Barrett of the quackwatch fame who has been by now sufficiently discredited as a professional racketeer. Im not conducting science here. Thats not refuting a study or an argument but engaging in the equivalent of infantile penis length comparisons. do i push drugs? There were 522 participants for the final analyses. A great deal of energy is required to make ozone. You want a list of all the science based medicine that has failed and caused death? "Health Canada has not been made aware of any ozone generators being marketed for cancer treatment in. Any complaints against our members, especially in gray areas of our current scope, could be damaging to the progress of this and future bills. in my original posting ive pointed out some obvious inaccuracies and logical fallacies in the article. Quote: Im not conducting science here. You refute a study by pointing out errors, fallacies, inaccuracies of the given study or argument which I have been doing so far and which you have repeatedly shown to be completely overwhelmed by, since all you present are just deflections, personal attacks, citations of academic or professional credentials or repeated proclamations that Im out or sunk LOL I would place ozone in the gray zonehere. Suffice it to say that you obviously havent read the paper, as I have pointed out above. Without intending to belittle the dangers of treating patients with ozone, shouldnt this be called bozone therapy? These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Tais urged licensed naturopaths in Californiato make sure that they practice within their legal scope and follow the naturopathic oath. The reasoning behind her plea is telling: We currently have active legislation to expand our scope. She would show me a drug and ask me what I thought. Provide data about treatments in medicine that reliably and repeatedly induce death as would be seen in mortality rates. CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21 - Food and Drug Administration Treats a large volume of your blood with ozone. Ref. You can wiggle and whine as much as you want. Ozone & Oxidative Therapies - CNPBC LOL. And I don't really need to point out the fallacy of that now, do You have used three logical fallacies. Interesting past time activity . I started this blog to expose naturopathic medicine and protect patients from the dangerous and incompetent practices rife in my former profession. Overview Does it work? Where are your data ? With regard to interpretation of data, for you it might be a foreign language, for me it is not. The number n=87 is quoted on pages 1, 2 and 3 of the paper. But the actual number of patients taken into consideration for the was still 87. The legality of ozone therapy performed by naturopaths varies throughout the United States and Canada, despite the procurement of ozone generators for medical use being a federal crime. Or were not talking about the same thing. Disc ozone In 5 years, 66 of those 87 women were dead. prayers are included. I thought it would simply represent what is wrong with the ozone practice. Since any study with n<30 is really statistically insignificant, as pointed out above. Very straight forward, no stats so should be easy for you to understand: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25895240. EUR 10.000. In Germany bets are contracts enforceable by law. The argument that one the other persons argument is dismissed because she/he does not have the academic credentials to make a valid argument, is really is just yet another attempt to deflect and not really engage in the argument, so yet another display of defeat. Thank you for the post. Youre out. Ozonotherapy is the use of medical grade ozone, a highly reactive form of pure oxygen, to create a curative response in the body. It is produced naturally in the upper atmosphere in reactions driven by intense ultraviolet radiation, which protects the surface of the Earth from being blasted with this UV. Ozone therapy meets none of these benchmarks. Patients deserve to know that the services offered by licensed medical practitioners are approved by health regulators for effectiveness and safety. The websites hes affiliated with are cringe worthy, and look like they were designed by a 7 year old, as do all the useless blogs that litter the internet. Where are your data to support your point of view of deadly treatment, i.e. Three logical fallacies do not make an argument. Not to mention your incorrect (again) use of the term. The state of the art treatment arm and the non state of the art treatment arm. With regard to botanical medicine, there is a study of cravatto et al who reviewed 1000 medically used plants. You did not, so WHERE ARE YOUR DATA ???? You used made-up nomenclature to dismiss the study. The effect should not have been so pronounced. And I don't really need to point out the fallacy of that now, do I?". Oxygen is listed under the miscellaneous therapy heading. exposed to dangerous, expensive, and illegitimate therapies? The SOPMed HiDose O3 method differs from Hyperbaric '10 Pass' Ozone Therapy in that it does not use a hyperbaric ozone . Typical. 87 patients who supposedly did CAM methods (not really, since delayed surgery or prayer or unknown modalities can hardly be considered as alternative healing methods). Where is Britts data to support her point of view of naturopathic licensing has caused thousands of patients to be If you would have *read* the whole thing and would have comprehended it, you would have found following: http://wjso.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1477-7819-10-118. You have made *several* extremely severe mistakes, assuming that n is 87 Oxygen is included under the specific medications heading. Naturopaths in Maryland are strictly limited to administering oxygen only in an emergency situation. ), nor 875 which would be 435. Dated 6:58 a.m., Tuesday May 24. And, they dont like to face the evidence that naturopathic doctors are incapable of self-regulation in a manner that upholds medical ethics and professional standards. It is also fully acceptable to you that these patients are endangered by a possible treatment delay. Browse Dr. Khans CV to view his certificates. What is her agenda? . Instead of urging the parents to go to the hospital immediately the naturopath involved prescribed a drug witout effect. cant say a group size is statistically insignificant; its simply the for that ?, Another common sign of admitting defeat in an argument: introducing a new argument into the discussion to deflect. Pola! IIRC Ms Hermes Bastyr education ripped her for something like a quarter million over just 4, which makes you an absolute piker by comparison. Exciting uncensored ozone educational videos can be found on OxygenTherapy.TV. Ozone did a lot for me in my Lyme battle! If one defines as harming patients the application of non-working treatments, a vast body of medical literature shows that naturopaths do indeed so (e.g. Ozone therapy: A clinical review - PMC - National Center for The effect of platelet-rich plasma and ozone therapy on tendon-bone healing in the rabbit rotator cuff repair model. Ozone is most commonly delivered by naturopaths through a process called autohemotherapy: blood is removed from a patients vein, infiltrated with ozone gas, and then returned to the patients blood supply. Not that I'm a pro by any stretch of the It would be really interesting to see the financial disclosure of the Mrs. Hermes. How do you ethically justify to charge your patients for that ? Ozone has been used safely for years and this site appears to be a troll trying to scare the public. We are still awaiting your data demonstrating the deadlyness of medical treatments. Blood is removed from a vein by gravity (like blood donation) and ozonated, then returned to the body slowly as a drip. So for the calculation of survival in the alternative methods group, 87 was used. Looking at table 2 on page 3 you see 3 different groups according with stages of cancer, I, II, III. This ozone layer helps protect the earth from excessive UV light which can be harmful to animals and plants. We have also demonstrated conclusively that you are unable to assess the material correctly (or even read it correctly for that matter). Your blatant lies and gross misunderstandings about study design and interpretation are all here for anyone to read and you are still trying to desperately cling to some shred of faux dignity with silly aggression and deflection. Examples: on the one hand the FDA declares ozone a toxic gas with no known medical properties. It was a matched comparison state-of-the-art vs various alternative treatments. Quote: What data would that be? The one underlining your claims for a starter ? The Ozone generator infuses Ozone Gas into the bottle. So of those who did alternative treatments (50), 48 might have relied on praying, 1 on Vit c IVs and 1 on a vegan diet or who knows what and in what constallation since "the details of CAM [complementary and alternative medicine] received by our patients were not available". Advanced techniques using ozone therapy are done in hospital settings in these countries - under ultrasound guided imaging, and applied directly into tumors, bone marrow and the peritoneal and pelvic cavity. The HiDose O3 method is a form of intravenous ozone therapy developed by the Society of Progressive Medical Education (SOPMed).This method combines certain aspects of both MAH (Traditional IV Ozone therapy) and Hyperbaric '10 Pass' Ozone. I know I am late to the party, but had a question and a couple of comments. The differences were quite remarkable and statistically significant. It is you who have provided Ozone therapy uses the medical-grade ozone gas for treating and healing various conditions and ailments. No ? Stick to your own standards and post the studies. The only thing you do is pulling your own definition of CAM out of the hat until reality fits your assumptions. Which is of course due to lack of valid counter-arguments. The Hawaii naturopathic formulary lists medical gas, but provides no further clarification. You have been refuted by a biotechnologist with 25+ years of experience in the field, including statistics, by a scientist knowing how to read studies and a professional statistician. But, on the other hand, she may be turning a blind eye to illegal practices of licensed naturopaths in California. the paper is bullshit. It does not work. Ok, so let me summarize: one does not need to provide data to subtantiate a point, except one does, if one is me. Do you not agree that giving a child water instead of a vaccine is not dangerous? Also your trying to turn around my words and arguments is getting kinda . Normally it cannot be easily stored. Sorry, but I really cant take you seriously now. macular degeneration), Increases Activity of Natural Healing Pathways. I see and thank Thomas Mohr for trying to provide an explanation for you but you still fail to grasp the methods. This and the failure to present data on your assumption, namely that medical treatments are reliably deadly renders you unfit to assess the validity of Britts argument. There are many publications listed on PubMed (the US National Library of Medicine database) dealing with ozone therapy dating back about 20 years. All one needs to do to expose a blind fanatic: is just let him ramble on. Look no further than homeopathy, which many if not most naturopaths embrace. Llarge parts of naturopathic therapies have been shown not to work (e.g. Obviously you need to purchase new spectacles. Ozone Injection involves the injection of ozone gas into a joint or muscle to provide pain relief and healing of the area. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. (a) Ozone is a toxic gas with no known useful medical application in specific, adjunctive, or preventive therapy. Get your statistical knowledge updated. Read the paper again. Air is about 78% nitrogen gas and about 21% oxygen gas. I also bet the survival rate with CAM only is even more catastrophic than with CAM plus delayed surgery. Ozone is toxic and an environmental hazard. Canada: A place in British Columbia asks US$266 (CAD350) for one 10 pass plus around US$65 for . Naturopaths cannot administer ozone or any gas in North Dakota. Again further deflection of the argument of the poor quality of the numbers of the study and a focus on the numbers themselves. Nothing but a bunch of anonymous failures who need to hide behind a computer screen because they have no REAL life. the material correctly (or even read it correctly for that matter). 1) Contrary to what you claim now you have started the discussion with a tu quoque argument, i.e. Ozone therapy has been found to be useful for: At Sano Via, ozone is administered by the following methods: We do not use the direct iv method due to side effects associated with oxygen/ozone bubbles potentially entering the heart and pulmonary circulation. advertise or sell them for medical purposes, How to talk to a loved one about the dangers of naturopathy, Justice prevails! statement naturopathic licensing has caused thousands of patients to be Quite an accomplishment . Ozone is a molecule made up of three oxygen atoms, which makes it unstable and highly reactive. do not ask me whether Im really a naturopath. It is you who have not provided any data. Moreover, drugs to lower the blood pressure and thus lowering the risk of a heart attack were NOT mentioned. to begin with, not understanding the effect between power and study Who is paying you to write these comments? Intramuscular oxygen-ozone therapy in the treatment of acute back pain with lumbar disc herniation: a multicenter, randomized, double-blind, clinic PubMed NCBI http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19478653?dopt=Abstract assumed that only the CAM arm was the study) to not realizing the You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. When my wife was in vet school, she would ask me about stuff in pharmacology. I trust you can do some basic maths even though you fail at statistics. Additionally you use an own, flawed definition of CAM. a) Presenting data to underline your point of view of deadly treatnments. And again avoiding my arguments this is a pattern. Thomas is correct that sample size is power and it doesnt matter if its small as long as it has enough power to detect effect size determined prior to sampling. A digest of my talk at NECSS 2017, https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00832312, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19478653?dopt=Abstract, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3299380/, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16978951, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25895240, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Ozone-CRC-MW-3D-balls.png. What is interesting is that you seem to understand all those parameters very well and still not understand that this study is of very poor quality and not able to convincingly show that naturopathic treatments are inferior to conventional ones when treating breast cancer in women instead you revert to personal attacks. To book your visit click here. MDs dont always appreciate the connection between their orgo class and medicine, but there are sometimes when it comes into play. Ozone therapy can be administered in different ways, including vaginally and rectally. Not 522 (where does this number appear in the paper? Continue dodging any relevant argument as to the quality of the numbers, not quantity. This includes diet, prayer and even standing on your head for 30 minutes a day. Kinda puts a bad light on the other biotechnologists out there but on the other hand shows so well how even a well experienced, and (I assume) highly educated scientist can engage in the most nonsensical, farcical, irrelevant, logically fallacious or logically lacking argumentation. Ozone is dissolved in sterile saline solution which is then infused into a vein. https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/alternative-medicine-use-and-breast-cancer-2012-update/. Introduction. Which seems to be the mode of your general reasoning. Ozone Therapy in Toronto | Ozone IV and Injection Therapy 4) Despite repeated requests by me and others you have failed to provide *any* evidence to back up what seems to be your main claim, namely your tu quoque argument that medical treatments are reliably deadly, with deadly being defined as increasing mortality rate and not lowering it. ", Here: Quote: "And to point out the obvious: this is not a randomized, controlled, double blind study but a "retrospective chart review" ehem. Thus, it is illegal to administer ozone to patients. double blind study but a retrospective chart review ehem. homeopathy as demonstrated by a large Australian study). Remember that remark by you if I wanted a study proving that gravity exists or something to that effect? I have asked you two times a simple question. Now guess what that means ? Quoting cases where something would have could have happened or should have not happened after administration of naturopathic medicine vs. hundreds of thousands of documented deaths due to conventional medicine? How do Americans rhyme so nicely ? IV Ozone | Edmonton Emerald Medical and Wellness Centre Hey, this is turning more entertaining than I thought . 5 patients for every CAM arm patient. Reports of death by embolism. http://www.ovationtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/glasses.jpg. You yourself said that this study consists of 87 women of various non-standard treatments lumped together. You are claiming Naturopathy is superior to conventional medicine Really? Sorry, but this will not fly. Well you have. Too bad for you that the study had a second arm with 5 times as many comparisons. This is the type of logical ineptitude most blind supporters of conventional medicine fall for. still 87. Ozone is dissolved in purified refrigerated water, and then consumed orally. Ozone therapyis a medical therapy that can treat a variety of ailments, depending on how it is used. If one needs evidence that you ca not even read the study correctly, then this is it. Then you ignore the citations demonstrating that naturopaths in a large number of states, despite ozone therapies being explicitly outside their legal scope of practice, are offering ozone therapies to suggest that theres no support for her statement naturopathic licensing has caused thousands of patients to be exposed to dangerous, expensive, and illegitimate therapies. Registered Naturopathic Doctor Practice Act, scope of practice. They quote the scientific definition, and this definition includes prayers. And you were wrong about the results.. You then offered what is either an ad hominem attack or an attempt at poisoning the well, by suggesting the author possess some undisclosed agenda rather than addressing the substance of her post itself. PRAYERS (emphasis mine). In each group n is smaller than 30 again. One of the most popular uses of Ozone is through the skin, via an ozone sauna or bagging. But as a gas, this supercharged oxygen may potentially have therapeutic qualities. Sano Vias own staff members have experienced the healing ability of ozone first-hand. Not science. Todays post focuses on the naturopathic use of ozone therapy. Which of course didn't stop medical researchers of conducting just such unethical studies in the past , "Given the low incidence of women choosing alternative medicine over standard treatment, and the vast effect difference this study is valid. LOL . And more legal thuggery, The naturopaths are coming! Not to mention that the attempt at a personal attack is yet another common sign of defeat in an argument . chest discomfort shortness of breath decreased lung function You are more sensitive to ozone if you have an underlying breathing condition. Taken together these facts invalidiate your entire criticism. The American Academy of Ozonotherapy https://ispub.com/IJPSP/10/1/1400, Ben Philipps, the papers you cite point towards a very limited role of Ozone in pain settings.as for your last paper: Quote: Ozone has beneficial effects on every part of the body. But I did understand that it was a 2 armed study and the total size of it. If one has that much ozone in your body that it kills baceteria viruses and fungi, that person is dead. With the already explained nonsensical grouping and lacking data which renders this whole chart review irrelevant. What? Used for ear infections, and intracranial pathology. There is even evidence that ozone can help slow the aging process. The website of Dr. Robert Rowan and Dr. Terri Su contains interesting information about ozone, such as the ability of ozone to cure Ebola virus infection. But only 87 who supposedly (but not really since using unknown modalities or delayed surgery is not really alternative medicine) used alternative treatments. The level of ozone indoors is generally lower than the level outdoors. You really do not understand study design. Ozone levels in Canadian homes are typically below the recommended limit and are therefore not a health concern for most homeowners. I really dont see how delayed surgery can be viewed as part of alternative treatments. Quote: Read the paper again. With regard to this hypothesis, the study is not only adequate but fit to answer the question. You are not only incompetent in statistics but also slain with a very weak memory. If you're trying to refute that, you're rendering your argument irrelevant." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13870135/. after surgery, chemo or radiation) OZONE RESEARCH You began with a non sequitor, attacking evidence based medicine. Two examples: An NPLEX Test case where a woman presented herself with sky high blood pressure and a suspected angina pectoris. Ozone & Oxidative Therapies Ozone & oxidative therapies includes all therapies involving ozone, hydrogen peroxide, intravenous (IV) ultraviolet therapy, and other invasive oxidative therapies. Is this really the best you got? But lets allow something which has already proven to be deadly, see pharmaceuticals and modern medicine? Nice try but it wont fly. roughly 10-20% of the plants which could be analyzed showed at least some effect. ( CFC) If not you can not claim that the study is not valid. The physician will assess the area requiring treatment, inform you about ozone therapy and ask any additional questions before the procedure. Sadly, many alternative providers in the US are doing this as well. Ozone therapy can be deemed both legal and illegal. I meant to sayDo you agree, that giving a child water instead of a vaccine is dangerous? What if we were to replace all vaccines with homeopathy? So shes basically engaging in playing bureaucratic watchdog over a demographic she failed to show that it warrants a watchdog. I.o.W. Ref two, couldnt get the full text but appears as though the groups were on concurrent medications. This should not fly. Once the ozonated blood is returned to you via the same IV site, a pass is considered completed. The study clearly shows that recipients of CAM who refuse or delay state-of-the art treatment for what reasons ever have half the survival rate of women who do not. Ozone gas is unstable and requires extreme caution. Thomas is also correct that you are woefully ignorant to complain that the study isnt an RCT. have you any substantive criticism to offer with regard to the Ms. Hermes blog post? yes, feel free to read my comment below. Thanks Carine for clarifying this point. Humidified ozone at a precise concentration flows into the ear canals through a device resembling a stethoscope. BTW, in order to reach a power of 0.9 you need only 22 patients per arm with an effect size of this magnitude. How do you ethically justify to charge your patients Ozone gas is inflated slowly into the rectum through a small catheter, which then absorbs into the bloodstream. argument that the same applies to dangers of deadly treatments. Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy - Canada.ca So, really it's hard to take such a study seriously. You have tried to counter the argument that there is no need to present data on self evidency of the dangers of non working treatments with argument that the same applies to dangers of deadly treatments. 9 patients? Perhaps naturopathic doctors would argue that ozone falls under thisterm. Sano Via doctors are excited to offer ozone therapy to the public for health promotion, illness prevention and disease management (both acute and chronic conditions). more than you. To the licensed naturopaths reading this post: you are once again On Notice.. You did not even understand the basic design of the study. Yet somehow its only ever Big Pharma who are in it for the money, and doubtless AltMed vendors everywhere would far rather be paid in kitten smiles and sunbeams than Filthy Allopathic Cash a payment method I strongly recommend AltMed consumers propose to their homeochiroquacktic practictioner upon their next visit and see how far that gets them. Blood is removed from a vein in a sterile closed curcuit and ozonated, then returned to the body quickly up to 10 times in 1 visit (10 pass). And I don't really need to point out the fallacy of that now, do I? But getting ripped off for the amount in less than a year still hurts. Moreover by confounding these data you show that you do not know the definition of medical treatement which is namely a state-of-the-art modality based on correct assumptions such as diagnosis, parameter measurement etc. I just read the study. Heres a lovely case report for you. "We are still waiting on your data."
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